Mark R. Levin Talks ‘Ameritopia’

I recently had the opportunity to interview bestselling author and nationally syndicated talk radio host, Mark R. Levin, about his new book, Ameritopia: The Unmaking of America.

BILA: I see Ameritopia as a necessary and complementary sequel to Liberty and Tyranny, especially at this point in our country’s history. What role can they both play as we approach this pivotal election season?

LEVIN: There is mostly talk these days, even by leading conservatives, about the disastrous symptoms of big government. The debt, Occupy Wall Street, the border, etc. While that is very important, it does not delve into the driving force behind these policies and movements. Ameritopia digs deep into the thinking and causes behind that which is unraveling our society. It asks the question (and answers it): What kind of force allures millions of people yet destroys them? The philosophical underpinning of this mindset is utopianism. That is what attracts people, and that is what the self-appointed political masterminds use to herd people. And utopianism is as old as Plato’s Republic and older. That said, there is a counter-force, and it is based on individual sovereignty, natural law and unalienable rights, and the civil society. In Ameritopia, I look at the philosophical underpinnings of these truths and facts. Where did the Founders come up with the ideas expressed in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution?

I am hoping that when more of my fellow citizens truly understand what is behind these different approaches to humanity, more will cherish liberty and fear the gradual tyranny that, unfortunately, grows too often in the midst of democracies. In turn, I am hoping to ignite an even more vigorous and energetic effort to preserve our society and trounce efforts to fundamentally transform it.

BILA: While discussing utopianism in Chapter One of Ameritopia, you write the following: “After all, only an army of drones is capable of building a rainbow to paradise.” Can you expand upon that, particularly with respect to the lure of utopianism and who is susceptible to its promises?

LEVIN: Utopianism is an attack on the individual in favor of a centralized, powerful governing body. Utopianism is what drives the growth of government or, as I call it, statism. In order to lure people to it, utopians make impracticable or impossible promises that are grand or even fantastic in scope. The goal is paradise, heaven on earth, where everything is equal—there is no pollution, there is no risk, health care is free, etc. In exchange, the individual must be reshaped, he must be denuded of his spirit, his self-interest must be condemned, and so forth. For the utopians, the individual is menacing and obstructing, whereas “the masses” and “the workers” can be pushed, prodded, and coerced to do what the masterminds deem necessary for their ideal society.

BILA: In speaking about the “masterminds” who rule utopian societies, you write the following: “Although the mastermind’s incompetence and vision plague the society, responsibility must be diverted elsewhere—to those assigned to carry them out, or to the people’s lack of sacrifice, or to the enemies of the state who have conspired to thwart the utopian cause—for the mastermind is inextricably linked to the fantasy.” I couldn’t help but draw my own parallel to Barack Obama’s incessant blame game when faced with his own abysmal record. What do you think about that?

LEVIN: You are right. Obama is only the latest in a long line of such masterminds. All that is necessary to become a mastermind in this sense is lots of power and a fanatical allegiance to an impossible idea. Since utopianism is a fantasy that cannot work and, as history has shown time and again, is in fact inhumane and disastrous—for it promotes authoritarianism and totalitarianism—the mastermind cannot accept blame for its endless failings, for to do so is to condemn himself. Instead, he condemns the efforts as piecemeal or blames it on outside forces or whatever. You can see this in Obama’s endless blame games, where he condemns prior administrations, the free market, the rich, corporate executives, ATM machines, you name it.

BILA: You write at one point in the book that utopianism is “transformative not reformative.” You also note that “When the fifty-five delegates met in Philadelphia in 1787 at what became known as the Constitutional Convention, their purpose was not to transform American society but to preserve and protect it.” Once again, I can’t help but think of Barack Obama’s “We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America.” Many of our GOP candidates are talking restoration. Are we seeing a utopianism versus constitutionalism battle play out right before our eyes this election season?

LEVIN: I believe in terms of the public debate we are. How it actually works out should a Republican be elected president is another matter, given that recent Republican presidents have contributed to the massive growth of the federal government—from TARP and the auto industry bailouts to the expansion of entitlements and the debt. I also think that when folks read Ameritopia, they will have a much better understanding of this hugely important conflict of philosophies, so that when Obama says what he says, they will immediately understand the roots of his contempt for individual sovereignty, the civil society, and the limits the Constitution places on would-be masterminds, which is what he meant when he said he wants to fundamentally transform our society. Transform it into what? Well, his ideal society. It is important to also understand that despite all the grand talk of his supposed paradise, he cannot produce an actual, comprehensive blueprint for his ideal society. He mostly operates from the notion that centralized, consolidated power in his hands and in the hands of those who agree with him is the necessary requisite for rearranging society in the most optimal way.

Again, this is why I undertook this project. If people read Ameritopia, they will, I believe, see more clearly what is transpiring around them.

BILA: You make a statement with respect to Plato’s Ideal City that really hit home with me: “In short, human passion cannot be regulated by any mathematical formula, class structure, or state directive.” Why is that so important in understanding the failure of utopias?

LEVIN: It is important because it is an essential element of utopianism. The individual is the object of his manipulations. Passion for an impossible fantasy is encouraged. Passion for the mastermind and his plans is applauded. But passion for self-interest, self-respect, and personal pride is not. The individual must be dehumanized if he is to become part of a greater pursuit—and an impossible pursuit. He must surrender to the fantasy or be conquered by it. It must accept his fate as an insignificant part of a greater purpose.

BILA: I find Ameritopia to be a very realistic assessment of where we are, no sugarcoating whatsoever—“America has already transformed into Ameritopia.” You close with a very important question: “The essential question is whether, in America, the people’s psychology has been so successfully warped, the individual’s spirit so thoroughly trounced, and the civil society’s institutions so effectively overwhelmed that revival is possible.” Are we too far gone to get back on the right track? And what will it take—practically speaking—to make that happen?

LEVIN: I do not know if we are too far off track to get back or not. I pose the question to the readers. Of course, time will tell. But I do think it is a daunting and formidable task, no question about it. I provide a limited list of suggested steps that can be taken to possibly begin reversing course in Liberty and Tyranny in the chapter “A Conservative Manifesto.” But whether enough of our fellow countrymen wish to live in Ameritopia instead of America is something we will learn in the near future, as the hour is short.

**My review of Ameritopia was published in Newsmax on January 16, 2012.




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9 years ago

Our country does not need changeing, our leadership does.

9 years ago

Very well said. This “Utopia” is something our government is always spreading to the weak minded. I would like to point out that the only group of people needing to be de-individualized by the mastermind is “us” the producers. The non-producers are all ready in the category of no self-interest, no self respect, and no personal pride. They are ripe for the taking by the mastermind. Some of Thomas Jefferson’s quotes always come to my mind when I read articles about a utopia and everyone getting the same, the democracy will fail when the government takes away from those willing to work and gives it the those not willing to work.

9 years ago

I’m glad that Ms. Bila stressed Levin’s statement regarding Obama’s absolute contempt for individual sovereignty and constitutional limitations. BHO and his socialistic cast of clowns are well on their way to completing a total devastation of our way of life.

9 years ago

I applaud Dr.levin for articulating what the silent majority is thinking. I think he should define his reference to “Drones” more frequently so that the “Great Unwashed” will realize who and what he is speaking about. Also, his producers should try to get his program on the more “progressive” media outlets so that he is not just preaching to the choir.

Carl Johnson
9 years ago

It is my personal estimation that Mr.Mark Levin is a true Patriot. I have been listening to him forever it seems and, never tire of his insight. I wish that I could go to the balloting box in November, and find his name on the ballot.

Please keep up the fight Mr. Levin and may God bless you and yours.

Chuck Andreas
9 years ago

Without a doubt we must get Obama OUT of office before he does more harm to destroy our great
nation as we know it. I’m not totally enthused with any of the Candidates but leaning towards Ron Paul because I like his platform and ideals even if he does look to old for the job of President. You cannot base
your selection of President on looks alone.

All the other’s are Anti-Gun including Mitt Romney and his Health-Care Plan is very close to Obama’s Plan
which is a disaster waiting to happen. Newt Gingrich is a DemocRAT in sheeps clothing and has voted more
with the Liberals than the conservatives. Regardless of our selection of individuals running on the Republican
side you can bet that I will never vote for a DemocRAT.

I sincerely hope that neither Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum or Mitt Romney are selected for President. However; if one of them are, with misgivings I will vote for the one selected.


9 years ago

I am no fan of Levin, but it is strictly personal. I cannot stand his radio talk tone and delivery, it is nervewracking, so I stopped listening many months ago. However, except for his new one, I read all his books and if I could tell him I would say just stick to writing.

9 years ago

I find it hard to believe that we cannot remove a president who promised to uphold the Constitution, and yet, does all he can to shred the principles that have made our country great! OBAMA MUST BE DEFEATED if we are to repair what he and his administration has done to our once vital USA.

Should we, as freedom loving conservatives, also fail to remove liberal/progressives from the Senate and House, we will follow the path of the once mighty “ROMAN EMPIRE’S” destruction.

The same OBAMA IDEOLOGIES that brought down the once-proud Roman civilization can be found in:
“YOUTUBES, US FORM OF GOVERNMENT.” The last 3 1/2 minutes of this 10 minute video will become our destiny through this traitor, to our Founding Father’s principles. May God give us the will to overcome evil! Spread this video of the destiny that awaits our country, should we fail to remove this worst president in American history, who is intent on controlling every aspect of our lives!

9 years ago

I want to Tell your readers about a book by G. Edward Griffin ” The Creature from Jekyll Island.” It’s about the development of the Federal Reserve and the banker cabal controlling it. They plan to end America as we know it with Obama as their point man.It’s all about a one world government. Since W WII the US has taken the lead they want to change that. Share the wealth and equal opportunity for all. What a joke.

9 years ago

Jedediah and Mark, you are preaching to the choir. The book from what you describe is great. The liberals tend to grab a headline and jump to conclusions ignoring the fine print. Most of the dumbed down population cannot read or cannot sit still long enough to read a book from beginning to end or understand the essence of the concepts. Those of us who have seen first hand the Ghettos of communism can see that the major differences from the American ghettos is language, location, and perhaps cleanliness. Each generation has to be taught but progressives now have the reins of the wagon to our future.

9 years ago

Mark Levin is a true patriot. Let’s all hope there is a ballot box solution to “The Enemy Within” residing in The People’s House. We need to sweep him out of office before he succeeds in totally destoying our American way of life.
May God continue to bless America.

Jim U.- New Haven
9 years ago

I’m also a fan of Levin. However, he ,like so many pundits on the Right want ONLY a “True Conservative” to be our standard bearer.
Well, guess what. We’re down to four choices. There will be no late entry with conservative credentials.
In my estimation, the only purpose of this election is to remove Obama. We have to unite behind whomever has the best chance to win, not who passes every conservative litmus test.
And let’s not forget the Senates and House elections. The next President will , possibly, be picking two or three Supremes. How important is that???

9 years ago

Settling? Settling for who might be the “best chance to win” just might be how we have got what we now have.

How about picking the better man/woman who represents more of the core values of what we as individuals really want in a leader. Then we get behind that person and elevate him/her to the leadership post.

I for one am tired of SETTLING for whomever “has the best chance of winning.”
I want a truly patriotic, core values American as my President!

Gregg Coldsnow
9 years ago
Reply to  Grandmama

Grandmama you are so right! We need to bombard the Republican National Committee headquarters with angry letters, denouncing them for conspiring with the Democrats to keep their “elite” in office. I too am tired of having to settle for the lesser of two evils. The only candidate I was ever able to enthusiastically support was Ronald Regan.

8 years ago
Reply to  Gregg Coldsnow

The mayor who can’t figure out how to pay for trash rmvoeal is calling Andi Turco-Levin unprofessional? That’s rich.I applaud Andi Turco-Levin for being the only candidate for Mayor who is talking about creating efficiency in this wasteful, bloated City Government.

9 years ago

After reading this interview I am reminded od H.G.Wells great book “The Time Machine” and what the very distant future looks like. Yikes!

9 years ago

I am afraid that it is to late to save America at the ballet box and their is only one other way if we have the gut’s for it . Pray folk’s…

9 years ago
Reply to  Pete

You can NEVER have enough ammo; get ready folks,

Gregg Coldsnow
9 years ago
Reply to  Mark

You are mighty right, Mark. Lead is the metal to invest in.

9 years ago
Reply to  Mark

..This is true..

9 years ago
Reply to  Mark

I agree it might come to that if Oswald can’t be found. The military and some of it’s great retired leaders on our side. If it comes to that, we have two choices, lead or brass. If at first you don’t succeed, reload.

8 years ago
Reply to  Bill

Note the typical REgressive MO, that is, “….this book stknis…” But wait, there’s nary a, shall we say, a direct refutation of something mark has written.Maybe she would like to match one of her philosophers and their rationals against…well, against history. A history of centuries of REgressive failures very nicely encapsulated by this book.Naah.MM

Ronald L. Lingle
9 years ago

We need a strong conservative leader as our next President. We need conservatives to control congress. Then we need to pass tough laws and simplify everything along with deep cuts to the federal government . I hope Mitt Romney is that man.

Who does Mark want to be our next President and VP?

Kenny B
9 years ago

I applaud AMAC’s partnership with “The Great One”. AMAC must continue to spread its wings through the media and compete head-on with the likes of the AARP.

9 years ago

Excellent discussion. One thing these collectivists cannot change and that is that everything in the universe is unique, therefore different. While some may be the same in the general nature, when looked at closely there are differences. Example: no one has the same fingerprints as another, structure of each leaf on a tree is similar but not identical to any other. That’s were collectivism fails, we are not all the same or want the same.

Something of interest though is the two big bullies on the block, global socialists and Muslims. For now they support each other somewhat, but they are destined to become embroiled in perhaps the biggest bloody conflict the world has every seen. Why do I say this….. the Koran and Muslim beliefs call for extermination of all else except Muslim servitude. That means extermination of all other religions, atheists, gays, womens rights, socialists, national patriots, etc., etc., etc.. It’s destined and the global socialists are being played by jihad strategy.

9 years ago

Mark is awesome. He is a true Paul Revere for our times.

9 years ago

Thanks for doing this. Book sounds great!

9 years ago

Awesome interview, Jedediah.

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